Program Introduction:"Brand Elimination Image" is a podcast focusing on the consumer industry and brand people initiated by Yun Yao, the director of the Consumer Research Institute, inviting every individual who is making a brand to see the real appearance of the brand from specific experience and explore more possibilities.
The third issue of "Brand Elimination" talks to beverage expert Xiaolong. Xiaolong told me that in the food and beverage industry, category is more important than brand. For product managers, it's not just about "making something" out, it's about being responsible for the business.
We often hear the saying that the founder of a brand is the biggest product manager.
But product managers are not born, and how the product manager personality is shaped, I talked to my good friend Xiaolong. Xiaolong is a senior product manager in the food and beverage industry, a former partner of Lemon Republic, and is currently working on new products in a major beverage factory.
For product managers, it's not just about "making something" out, it's about being responsible for the business. The dividends of the new wave of consumption have faded, the market has entered a period of adjustment, and it is the brand that can really gain a firm foothold in the market or win with products.
Xiaolong told me that in the food and beverage industry, category is more important than brand, and the logic of innovative categories is to find a known and unmet demand in the market, which is not created, but discovered, which seems to be different from the common sense we understand.
How to find out?Categories such as tea, juice, coffee, and liquor, which have existed long enough in human history, are all related to people's genetic preferences, so as long as you occupy 2 potentially addictive things, there is a high probability that you can't go wrong. Therefore, a product like Coca-Cola, which occupies the core category and has a long life cycle, is something that beverage product managers cannot find.
Compared with the mature market, there is still a lot of market space for bottled coffee drinks, and Xiaolong is currently exploring the coffee category, looking forward to her products being launched as soon as possible.
Anchor of this issue:
Xiaolong is a beverage expert, a product manager of a major beverage factory, and a former partner of Lemon Republic.
Yun Yao, Director of the Consumer Research Institute.
Here's an excerpt from the conversation in this episode:
a：There is no fixed college discipline for product managers, and everyone has a different experience and a different understanding of "product". Most of the product managers around me have changed careers, and my colleagues have also worked in content, finance, investment, etc. before.
I majored in foreign languages and worked as a translator. The turning point of becoming a product manager was in a content company, where the work experience at that time cultivated a complete product logic, and the work state at that time was very open, free, and wild, which was very helpful for the cultivation of the product manager's personality. My current thinking about making products is to make bold assumptions and carefully verify them. Bold assumptions mean that I have a very complete product framework on the first day I think about things, and careful verification refers to what the competitors in this category are doing in the current market environment, and then how to do the calibration work.
a：Three reasons. First, I am a more enthusiastic consumer and will have more fun buying or experiencing food and beverage products. Second, food and beverage is an industry with relatively high consumption, high penetration rate and wide contact, and the study of food and beverage is more like a social discipline problem, and the process of exploration is very interesting. Finally, everyone who works in food and beverage has a brand ideal in their hearts. Just like Coca-Cola, from a first-tier city to a sixth-tier city, whether it is children or the elderly, breaking the age and market restrictions, and what attracts me the most is the story and brand concept of Coca-Cola, I entered the field of food and beverage in fact, I wanted to make a product like "Coca-Cola", and then found it difficult to come in. Because the wider the coverage of the population, the deeper the penetration rate, the more things need to be thought about.
a：In the past few years, the environment was relatively friendly to the consumer market, and a large number of new consumer brands emerged at that time, and these brands were not necessarily completely supported by products at that time, because there was also the blessing of traffic dividendsButAfter the heat of the last two years has passed, it is the brands that can really gain a foothold in the market with their products, and the founders of these brands are actually the role of "big product managers".
Product managers should first discover market and category opportunities, determine the logic of category innovation, and then generate good product ideas on this basis, and then serve users. Product managers don't just "do something", they are first and foremost responsible for the business.
The second point is to do a good job in category positioning, because the logic of innovative categories is to find the known and unmet needs in the market, this demand is not created, it is discovered, find the opportunity of this category, and then do a good job of positioning, and then do a good job of products, and become the first choice of this category, which is a complete logic. For product managers, doing a good job of category positioning can empower the life cycle and sustainable growth of the brand.
a：Most of the new brands are still in the "(shaping) product" range, and it is very difficult for the food and beverage industry to really make a brand. Like beauty and skin care or home fragrance brands, there will be brand stories, product experiences, and spiritual things to tell. For food and beverages, category will actually be more important than brand, and category positioning is the most critical.
For example, Coca-Cola, which has a large market share in China, and some categories can actually be benchmarked against it, such as Luckin Coffee's latte, the logic of this product is a collection of sugar, milk, caffeine and other addictive things, soAs long as you occupy two potentially addictive things, there is a good chance that there will be no problems.
a：When making lemon juice in Lemon Republic, the logic of bringing in the product is that we first find an opportunity in a category, and then become the first choice and number one in that category. Lemon juice is a different category in the whole juice category, called lemonade abroad, using lemon juice as the base to add things, and then the lemon juice products we make are low-temperature, which tastes more sour and refreshing than other fruit juices, and can be made with low sugar, and has a strong sense of fashion and health. Acid itself is an addictive taste.
We found that the drinking scene of fruit juice in China is different from that in foreign countries, where orange juice is regarded as the standard of middle-class life, such as the scene of "having a drink in the morning". Under this influence, most of the juices that entered the Chinese market in the past few years are orange juice, but you will find that Chinese actually do not have a fixed drinking scene, such as low-temperature juice of Weiquan, and many businesses are from the scene of lunch box lunch with juice, detoxifying the greasy meal, and you can also drink it in the afternoon, soFor Chinese, it may be that juice is more likely to appear at a one-person table or family tableLike Sam's little lime juice.
In addition, the establishment of lemon juice is related to the eating habits of Chinese people and the current health trend, lemon juice is sour, can be made low sugar, plus the user itself will have some health understanding of lemon supplementation vitamin C, which is bound to the mind of lemon itself.
a：Sourness, it's actually part of the sweetness. The sour part is added with sweetness, and it will make the taste fuller and tastierWe will find that the highest evaluation of desserts by Chinese is that they are not too sweet. And then acid is actually bound to freshness.
At the beginning, there may not be a direct yearning for "acid" in the genes of people, because acid means immaturity, and ancient humans must have picked ripe fruits, which means more sugar and nutrients. But now everyone's nutrition is overloaded, and it needs to be kept light and healthy, and at this time, "acid" has become a lighter and healthier representative. Sour is an acquired taste, such as the one that advances to specialty coffee, and the more you accept it, the more you drink it, the more sour it becomes.
a：Myself prefer to do old school categories, categories that have been around long enough in human history. For example, categories such as tea, juice, coffee, and wine have actually existed long enough in human history and are related to people's genetic preferences.
I've been thinking about how to solve the problem of repurchase, reduce the cost of attracting new users, let users understand that my efficiency is improved, and we can grow together in the future, not just an "Internet celebrity" or a product that only meets the needs of users at a certain stage. So I'm looking at what kind of category can achieve this, and then what else can I explore?
I'd like to try RTD coffee (ready-to-drink) coffee next, and there will be more Nestlé in the Chinese market at the moment, followed by Starbucks, Costa, Benason, etc., and then there is a brand that makes cold brew coffee called Never Coffee.
Nestle basically makes a silky latte is a coffee drink, which is the logic of a hedonic latte, because the users of the entire Chinese market are in a relatively early stage, and coffee has only begun to heat up in the past two years.
a：I think product managers can be divided into two categories, one is a professional product manager with experience in a large factory, this kind of person has a mature approach and logical framework, and can provide solutions based on the analysis and judgment of market strategy;The second type refers to the CEO of the new brand, who may even start from the ** chain, and the founder is more product-oriented, and after seizing the opportunity of a certain category, he will explore the different expressions of the product. For example, Fino, I think the coconut thing can be done, Fino ** coconut is a variety of possibilities, and assumes the role of ** chain, research and development and product expression. Both of these are actually different development paths for product-type personalities. One is to provide the best solution at the moment, and the other is rooted in the category, identifying that this category has opportunities, plus their own understanding of the category, launching different products, and iterating on the product side.
Now I can come up with a solution, but I want to do the latter, really get into a category, and grow with the category. It's hard to figure out a category and do it well. The Chinese market is still a very segmented marketFind a category to go into, and then become the first choice in that category, you must first become the first choice before you have a chance.
a：I think there are still some relatively basic and very old-school categories, such as tobacco, alcohol, sugar and tea.
a：The founder of Santun and a half, first of all, the product form of Santun and a half is created by himself, and many people in the market imitate him, but he always follows the soul of less than Santun and a half. Santonban has also been making new attempts to launch new product forms, such as cold brew coffee liquid. I think a good founder or product manager is a good state if it is self-consistent.
a：The first is to enter information, stay curious, and continue to talk to the owner and users to get information about the productThe second is output, making decisions and judgments, and determining what to do nextHow?The third is to promote the implementation of ideas. As a product manager in the food and beverage industry, it is very basic to eat samples regularly, just like a chef, eat more and keep your senses sensitive.
a：Santun and a half is actually a definition of a new category called "boutique instant", which is actually a three-in-one on the previous market.
First, the iteration and upgrade of instant coffee products, I would have bought them frequently three or four years ago, but in fact, the needs of coffee users are advanced. So from this point of view, three and a half meals is my choice at a certain stage, because it is convenient enough and restores the flavor of the coffee.
There are different levels of users in the coffee market, and there are ready-made coffee brands that are cultivating the market and continuing to attract new ones, and this kind of brand will pull more people into the coffee circle, so as long as it continues to be in the industry and finds the right positioning, I think it can do well.
Now everyone is still using the logic of coffee drinks to make RTD products, but the actual benchmark is the mature coffee marketThere is a coffee market in Japan.
Five or six colas are the size of a plate, and a third of them are bottled coffee, and they have a very developed vending machine system, so it is extremely convenient. Japanese black coffee occupies a relatively large share, which solves the demand for coffee to continue life and refresh itself.
a：What I have to do on my own is not sweetened with the product, it is completely the taste of coffee. Coffee users at different stages have different needs for coffee, so when doing product positioning, we should consider whether to cut the market to "attract new customers" or target users who already have coffee drinking habits, so if they already have coffee drinking habits, they will drink nothing sweet, so I will make something that is not sweet.
Starbucks' main product is still Latte Frappuccino, but they have a high-end line called Pike Place Parker, which specializes in unsweet black coffee products, mainly in MT channels and online channels similar to Freshippo.
Under the trend of unsweetening, we found that the growth of unsweetened teas is very fast, such as Oriental Leaves, which was ranked as one of the top 10 most unpleasant drinks a few years ago, and then suddenly increased by 50% last year.
a：My personal point of view, when the Yuanqi Forest sparkling water rises, there are many products on the market that make zero sugar, zero fat, and zero calories, and the Oriental leaves can rise so fast, which may have something to do with the Yuanqi Forest, because the Yuanqi Forest talks about zero sugar very sharply and very clearly, telling users that the good thing is that this has a great impact on the market.
I think there are some products that are suitable for added sugar, such as cola, iced tea, because these products are hedonic products, and professional sports drinks also need sugar, because users need to supplement sugar. Another category is not very suitable for added sugar, such as Suntory oolong tea, which also has a low-sugar version of the product, but the market acceptance of low-sugar products may not be so good, and in essence, this product is a light tea, which is more suitable to be made into non-sweet, so the product with or without sugar is also related to the characteristics of the category itself.
a：Coffee drinks are actually regarded as money printing machines by many large manufacturers, and basically every large factory is making them. For example, in addition to the silky latte, Nestle continues to invest in the coffee category, Coca-Cola has deployed COSTA, Suntory has deployed BOSS coffee, Master Kong has laid out Benason, Unified layout Yaha, and Nongfu Spring has laid out Tan. In terms of the Japanese market, Suntory's BOSS Coffee ranked first, and Coca-Cola's Georgia ranked second. At present, the whole category still needs educationAs people's consumption habits and user structure change, there will be some new opportunities. (More on bottled ready-to-drink coffee: bottled ready-to-drink coffee, water and cola are all on the lookout).
a:The first core layer is to think about what category to do, find out the product positioning, and the point of product differentiation, which is the core thing. The second is the relationship layer, on the basis of clarifying the product positioning, thinking about the user group and the degree of payment, and then splitting the cost to form a complete business logic. The third is the expression layer, which clearly expresses the advantages and selling points through packaging, for example, Liangbai Kai is an example, which helped Jinmailang fight a turnaround.
a：The Chinese market is vast and has a lot of facets, so there is no way to look at it as a market. The rise of some products may be strongly related to regional eating habits, such as the local olive juice brand in Yunnan called Olive Qing, which is combined with the eating habits of the local people to make olive juice products, which first penetrated the entire Yunnan market, and then appeared as a chain brand to make orange products;Wang Laoji did a catering market in Sichuan and Chongqing in his early years, and he bound "Fear of fire, drink Wang Laoji" to the "spicy hot pot" scene, which is related.
There are also energy drinks, such as Red Bull, which was divided into Thai Red Bull and Austrian Red Bull in the early days, and the Austrian Red Bull will sponsor extreme sports and hip-hop dance competitions, which are products bound to the trend and fashion. When Red Bull entered the Chinese market in the early days, it also focused on white-collar workers, as a vitamin functional drink, and then in the nightclub scene, it was also a stimulus + stimulation when it was mixed with Yege, so Red Bull's sales in nightclubs at that time were very powerful.
There is also a more interesting point, Red Bull in the early sales in Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Guangdong sales performance is very good, because Red Bull pricing is more expensive, the local people will use Red Bull as a gift circulation currency to relatives and friends, Guangdong is more developed light industry, Dongguan sex industry is more developed, sex workers will buy Red Bull to send customers. So sometimes brands can't imagine it, and people will create some scenes based on their own understanding.
a：One is the health of addition, such as drinking water, adding vitamins to the water, supplementing electrolytes, and the logic of subtraction, such as reducing sugar from the drink, making it healthier and unburdensome. So health is a very obvious trend, and there is no doubt about it.
a：Maybe the mass market is a challenge for me. Your product decision is the result of your consensus with many people, which refers not to the result of internal consultation, but to reach a consensus with users, channel providers, first- and second-tier cities and "hometown users".
Production team
Anchor: Yun Yao.
Operations: Antlers.
Clip: Cotton swab.
Visual Design: Liu Dongtao.
Producer: Zhang Huanan, Luo Wenqin.
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