Mo Hao, Wu Hao.
Mr. Wu Hao, in the last dialogue, we focused on the evolution of the historical status of Jingdezhen ceramics. Mr. on "Jingdezhen word **, the development process of Jingdezhen ceramics, the final shape of Jingdezhen ceramics, Jingdezhen porcelain people in the past hundred years carrying the glory of history difficult to move forward, and in the new development period to regain their self-confidence, out of a different from other porcelain production areas of the survival and development of the road, etc.", Mr. in simple terms, has a great impact on me, let me re-understand Jingdezhen, the current Jingdezhen porcelain industry has a new positioning.
Jingdezhen can stand in the world of ceramics, inseparable from the imperial kiln factory, the relationship between them: Jingdezhen, like the palace of porcelain makers in China and even the world, the imperial kiln factory is the pearl of this palace
Mr. Wu Hao: That's a good analogy.
Thank you sir for the compliment. However, according to the agreement, do you want to focus on telling me about the Imperial Kiln Factory today?
Mr. Wu Hao said: Okay.
He pondered for a moment and continued, Actually, I also have a process of understanding the Imperial Kiln Factory.
I said, sir, you are humble.
Mr. Wu Hao said: The Imperial Kiln Factory has two dynasties before and after, spanning more than 560 years, and its content is rich, and some of it is bottomless, so far people can't see through.
I asked (1): Sir, what do you think of the Imperial Kiln Factory?
Mr. Wu Hao said: I was born in Linchuan, Jiangxi, and came to Jingdezhen after graduating from university, so I was fortunate to become a Jingdezhen person, especially in the ruins of the Imperial Kiln Factory, I will find myself particularly proud, as if standing on the shoulders of giants, and dialogue with history.
In the era of agricultural civilization, the Imperial Kiln Factory became a unique kiln system, ranking first among all kilns in the country at that time, and leading their development. It created a lot of "most": the hands of the era, the world's largest factory;The world's longest-surviving enterprise (560 years);The porcelain it fired is beautiful and exquisite, and every time it appears, it has caused the world to marvel and blow a Chinese cultural windHer porcelain-making skills, porcelain-making concepts, and ceramic aesthetic ideas and tastes still influence the porcelain-making world todayEspecially in Jingdezhen at present, its genes are everywhere, and even its translation.
However, I also have a process of getting to know it, and I have sat next to it and don't know its true face.
I asked (2): Sir, when did you get acquainted with the Imperial Kiln Factory?
Mr. Wu Hao laughed after hearing this.
He said, early. Mr. Wu Hao continued: After graduating from university, the unit where I worked (Jingdezhen ** Compound) was located on the original site of the Imperial Kiln Factory. One or twenty years later, until the overall relocation and transformation of the compound, I knew that I was sitting in the imperial kiln factory of Jingdezhen in the past, where the pottery official of the Qing Dynasty sat down;The underground remnants are all cultural relics and are of very high value. How high?It is said that Geng Baochang, an old man in the cultural relics industry, said that it (referring to underground cultural relics) can reach ten Forbidden City.
Geng Lao's remarks, coupled with the confirmation of the world's major auction houses, has become the center of the Chinese collecting world, and it has also become the center of Jingdezhen people's after-dinner meals, and the number of people who remember it will naturally increase. Of course, there are good and bad ones.
At that time, when we moved, it was a legal and scientific protection of it (the Imperial Kiln Factory) as a whole.
To be honest, I know it in such a specific context.
When I was studying in school, the middle school history book wrote that Jingdezhen porcelain was famous all over the world, and its characteristics were "white as jade, bright as a mirror, thin as paper, and sound like a chime".
After graduating and assigned to work in Jingdezhen, because he was not engaged in ceramic work, ceramics were around him, and he cared less about themIt was only when I returned to my hometown at the end of the year that my family knew that Jingdezhen porcelain was doing well and wanted to bring some dishes back, so I remembered it. However, when I went to the market and saw a dazzling array of porcelain, I didn't know whether it was good or bad, good or bad, and I only knew how to pick it up in the pile of green porcelain.
Now, only to know, that is the glaze color, lead and chromium can not be used, and later I also know that the white glaze is not clean, but also toxic, only burned to more than 1300 degrees, the glaze of lead, chromium toxic components volatilized, this kind of porcelain products can be used with confidence. In the selection of porcelain, now it is also fine, in addition to illumination, but also knock, to touch, put on the hand, and finally put it on the flat glass.
When it comes to really understanding the porcelain industry in Jingdezhen, about 20 years ago, the leaders of the Propaganda Department of the local municipal party committee transferred me to do TV dramas and write my own scripts. After I first wrote the outline of the script with the theme of the Imperial Kiln Factory, the relevant institutions at home and abroad said that it was good, but my school studied economics, not Chinese, and how to write it well, it was dark in front of my eyes, and in the end, there was only one stupid way, consult professionals, and start from collecting information and mastering the materials of the Imperial Kiln Factory. I continued to go deep into factories and alleys, visited local craftsmen and the elderly, and went to the library to check materials. Due to special reasons, this play was stranded for a while, and I had to write it into a book, that is, "The Last Official Kiln". After many polishes, more than 20 years later, it will be launched again today, and will join forces with CCTV to finally launch it. Among them, what can make me stick to it is the encouragement and spur of the spirit of the imperial kiln factory in the heavens. Although the imperial kiln factory is set up for the royal family, it is not made by the royal family, it can go to the glory and reach the peak of the world's handmade porcelain, which is the crystallization of the collective wisdom of the Chinese nation.
I asked (3): Sir, what is the full name of the Imperial Kiln Factory, and what is the location in the current Jingdezhen City?
Mr. Wu Hao said: In Jingdezhen, many people in Jingdezhen talk about Jingdezhen, and they say that Song Qingbai porcelain and Emperor Zhenzong of the Song Dynasty gave the name;Speaking of Yuan Qinghua and Fuliang Porcelain Bureau.
It took decades to read through and read through the history of the development of Chinese ceramics, and I knew that the above are all the foreshadowing and preliminary preparations for Jingdezhen's establishment of ceramic hegemony and pride in all things, and the foundation of its hegemony is the imperial kiln factory.
Imperial Kiln Factory, its full name is Daming Jingdezhen Imperial Ware Factory, after the Qing Dynasty entered the customs, it was completely inherited, and renamed Daming Jingdezhen Imperial Kiln Factory. Compared with the Ming Dynasty, the rulers of the Qing Dynasty loved it more, more persistent, they continued to renovate and expand on the original basis, the scale was more than doubled, the peak of the kiln factory personnel, up to 10,000 people, it is the world's largest factory in the era of handicraft farming civilization, its specific location, according to the Qing Dynasty Qianlong two years of "Fuliang County Chronicles" records, "the imperial ware factory was built in the south of the Zhushan Mountain, the Ming Hongwu two years set up a factory to make pottery for the use of Shang Fang, the regulation is both Hong, after the expansion of the base, open up the wall five miles"。That is, today's Jingdezhen urban center is bordered by Zhushan Middle Road in the south, Jingjing Road in the north, Zhonghua North Road in the east, and Dongsiling in the west, with an area of about 54,300 square meters.
I asked (4), sir, is the Imperial Kiln Factory the same concept as the official kiln that the folk say.
Mr. Wu Hao said: The porcelain of the Ming and Qing Imperial Kiln Factories is called the official kiln ware in the folk or collection circles. However, in history, there was an official kiln, that is, the kiln factory set up by the imperial palace itself in the Song Dynasty. Ru, Guan, Jun, Ge, Ding, among the five major nouns, are ranked behind Ru porcelain. However, this official is not another official, everyone calls it Gaogu porcelain, and the state currently prohibits it from circulating in the market.
Ming and Qing Dynasty Imperial Kiln Factory (official kiln) porcelain, currently in the Jingdezhen ceramic market, there are many imitations, and they are sold openly. However, in Jingdezhen, the real attention is not it, but Yuan blue and white porcelain. The reason for this, they all know that the porcelain of the Ming and Qing Imperial Kiln Factory (official kiln) has many comparable (underground objects), which is relatively easy to identify, and the profit margin that can be manipulated secretly is small.
I asked (5), sir, how much porcelain did the Ming and Qing imperial kiln factories produce?
After hearing this, Mr. Wu Hao smiled and said: This question stopped me. For more than 560 years before and after the Ming and Qing Dynasty Jingdezhen Imperial Kiln Factory, few people have studied how much porcelain and how many varieties have been produced, including me.
A few days ago, there was a voice in the market, saying that the products of the Imperial Kiln Factory were mainly provided to the emperor and queen in the palace at that time, and the daily quantity was small.
Actually, this is a big misunderstanding!
From the archives of the Forbidden City, we can still get a glimpse or two. For example, during the Xuande period of the Ming Dynasty, Chen Bingzhong supervised the pottery period, and supervised the production of 443,500 pieces of Longfeng porcelain;During the Zhengde period, Yin Fu served as a term and supervised the production of more than 30 thousand pieces of porcelainDuring the Longqing period, Cui Min served as the governor of the pottery period, and supervised the construction of more than 860,000 pieces of porcelain in Guanglu Temple in five years. That's just the number of three dynasties. It can be seen that its production volume is very huge.
Some people will ask based on this, such a large amount, it is impossible for the locals in Jingdezhen not to make some gains at that time, such as collecting one or two pieces?
It is said that at the beginning of the construction of the Ming Imperial Ware Factory, the internal management was not very strict, and it often happened that the Tao ** took the unsuccessful porcelain outside the factory and gave it to others. During the Xuande period of the Ming Dynasty, the Xuande Emperor beheaded Zhang Shan, the eunuch of the Ministry of Rites (Tao Supervisor), and hung Zhang Shan's head in front of the kiln factory to show the public, and stipulated that the unsuccessful porcelain must be destroyed in the factory, and this system continued until the end of the imperial kiln factory.
In this way, it is natural to put an end to the shadow of the products of the Imperial Kiln Factory outside the Jingdezhen Imperial Kiln Factory.
I asked (6), sir, could you tell me about the specific purpose of the products of the Imperial Kiln Factory.
Mr. Wu Hao said: Okay.
He continued: According to relevant historical records, the porcelain produced by the imperial imperial ware factory in the Ming and Qing dynasties in China is not only to meet the porcelain used by the royal family (including the palace and the royal family), but also to meet the needs of the imperial court for internal and external rewards, exchanges, and other needs.
Among them, the utensils used in the palace, in addition to the bowls, plates, teacups, and wine cups used in daily life, there are also offering vessels (including funeral companions), ritual utensils, flower arrangement, and finally the emperor's playware, etc.
Among the daily necessities, they are divided into grades, among which the emperor uses the highest and the queen uses the second.
So, how do these utensils reflect the hierarchy between them?
The palace offices usually use ornamentation and color to distinguish the hierarchical differences between them.
Although porcelain is made by kiln workers, it cannot be used by kiln workers in the Imperial Kiln Factory. Even if it is a pottery governor, he cannot take it home and use it. Tang Ying, a famous pottery official in history, sent out porcelain, all of which were paid by himself. Although the porcelain of the Imperial Kiln Factory is close to this foot, it is only separated from the people outside by a wall, and the local people cannot see its beauty. The products it produces have nothing to do with the locals or even the porcelain industry. Almost completely independent of the local outside, closed management.
The emperor, who lived deep in the palace, gave it to the minister when he was happy.
One or two pieces of porcelain, after the minister brought it home, he couldn't use it, and he could only offer it, and he couldn't, he was disrespectful to the emperor, he rubbed it, and lost his head.
This is the subordinate system under the feudal imperial power!
Due to the strict management system of the imperial kiln factory in the Ming and Qing dynasties, there are naturally very few porcelain in the imperial kiln factory, or even none. In today's collecting world, someone shouts to the outside world, he said, I have a collection of official kiln porcelain from the Imperial Kiln Factory in my home.
People who have really worked in this industry for a long time will ask, what did your ancestors do? When you understand their family history, if you come from a reckless background, you don't need to look at the collection, and you will immediately conclude that it is fake;If you are from a family of princes and ministers, it is different, but you still can't tell whether it's true or false.
Sir, I've seen it for a long time.
I would like to ask again (7): Is the Imperial Kiln Factory really completely independent?
Mr. Wu Hao said: What I just said is the porcelain produced by the Imperial Kiln Factory, which has nothing to do with the Jingdezhen people and porcelain makers, but I did not say that it has nothing to do with the local porcelain industry, on the contrary, they have extensive connections with each other.
During a casual conversation, I spoke with the leader of the local Jingdezhen National Inheritance and Innovation Pilot Zone, and he said that Jingdezhen has benefited from the Imperial Kiln Factory, but the city has also been dragged down by the reputation of the Imperial Kiln Factory.
I was stunned when I heard this, and I thought it was incredible, there could be such a talent among the cadres in Jingdezhen
The imperial kiln factory is not unique to the people of Jingdezhen, she is the country, it is the wealth of the whole society, the imperial kiln factory of all Chinese, it is just that the ruler of the dynasty settled it in Jingdezhen.
The porcelain makers in Jingdezhen can't take it all in their possession.
In ancient China, the porcelain system of Jingdezhen in the Ming and Qing dynasties was originally two sets, one was royal and the other was civil. In addition, the folk porcelain-making system is really its own.
However, the utensils produced between them do not seem to match, independent of each other, and there is no dime relationship outside, in fact, the internal connection between them, ordinary people can not see through, such as "official and private burning", the imperial kiln factory is through the "official and civilian burning", to ensure that it puts forward extraordinary demand for the palace. In addition, in the late Qing Dynasty, the Qing rulers even allowed the kiln workers of the imperial kiln factory to open factories on the spot or work in local folk kilns when they were free. At the same time, the development of the folk kiln factory also reserved a large number of porcelain-making talents for the normal production of the imperial kiln factory, and included some good technicians into the official register, and finally entered the imperial kiln factory.
The rulers of the Ming and Qing dynasties were wise. In addition to the imperial kiln, they also set up the Governor's Pottery Mansion, which not only managed the daily affairs of the imperial kiln factory, but also managed the national porcelain industry.
Porcelain production was the most high-tech industry at that time, and it not only generated taxes for the dynasty, but also earned foreign exchange for the dynasty.
For the Imperial Kiln Factory, it is not limited to meeting its own needs, but also requires it to set an example and drive the development of the national porcelain industry.
Because of this, Jingdezhen has formed the center of porcelain making in the country and even in the world, and has become a veritable world porcelain capital.
The imperial kiln factory is not conservative in the technical guidance of the domestic folk kilns, and only requires the folk kilns to stipulate that the flower surface and glaze can not be used, so as to maintain the difference between themselves and the folk kilns, and open up the distance from the consumption of the people, but externally, it is strictly blocked in technology. This is also the real reason why the ceramic industry in Europe, and even in other parts of the world, is thousands of years behind us.
Sir, some people say that Jingdezhen porcelain is done well, and it is attributed to "craftsmen from all directions". This view, and it is very popular in the local area.
I would like to ask (viii) whether this view is correct.
Mr. Wu Hao said:
Mr. Mo Hao, I would like to tell you here that the source of this view comes from the late Mr. Liu Xinyuan, a contemporary scholar in the field of culture and museums.
However, I think this view is debatable. Historically, the stability of Jingdezhen's porcelain-making talent team and related personnel originated from the Ming and Qing dynasties on the basis of the "craftsman service system", the "shift craftsman system" implemented in the Ming Dynasty, and the "recruit craftsman system" implemented in the kiln workers in the Qing Dynasty.
Instead of relying on market regulation, let alone relying on emotions and feelings!
Sir, I ask you (nine), the fine porcelain of the Imperial Kiln Factory, as some "experts" outside say, is a hundred miles.
First, one out of a thousand, or even one out of a thousand, "smashed" out.
Mr. Wu Hao: At present, most of the "experts" in China's ceramic literature and history believe that the Ming and Qing Dynasty Royal Kiln Factories have brought together skilled craftsmen from all over the country by virtue of the privileges granted by the royal family, which has greatly promoted the innovation of China's porcelain technology. Again, as the people say, the royal family has money, and they do not hesitate to burn porcelain, and finally, they are picky.
One, one in a thousand, or even one in a thousand!
This is actually an unjust, false and wrongful case created by later generations for the emperors of the Ming and Qing dynasties.
Whether it is the Ming Dynasty or the Qing Dynasty, the state has too many things to do, and it is impossible for them to focus their main energy on the dishes used in daily life. I think that the Imperial Kiln Factory can produce good porcelain, and I think it is roughly in the following two aspects.
First, strict management. Here is a true story for you: in the twenty-seventh year of Wanli in the Ming Dynasty, Pan Xiang, the eunuch of the Ministry of Rites, supervised Tao and supervised the production of the royal dragon pattern vat. Pan Xiang was brutal by nature, and whipped the potters lightly, and killed them with a cane. The kiln worker Tong Bin invested in the kiln as a salary, and the dragon jar was successfully fired. (This incident sparked a civil uprising, and the porcelain workers burned the imperial ware factory, and the emperor named Tong Bin as the kiln god, and beheaded Pan Xiangcai to quell the matter.) This is a later story).
On the other hand, I think it lies in the institutional design of the dynasty. They set up a manufacturing office in the palace to manage the production registration and planning tasks of the imperial kiln factory, and organized full-time personnel to develop and design new products, so as to realize the separation of production and design. Among them, first-class product design, first-class production team, coupled with strict management, the porcelain fired by the Ming and Qing imperial kiln factories is not exquisiteIt is reported that sometimes the highest level of the palace (the emperor) is also involved in this kind of design, and the product style is strictly controlled. The porcelain products of the Qing Dynasty "Kangxi, Yongzheng, and Qianlong" have their own styles, and the reasons are directly related to the participation and attention of the supreme ruler at that time.
Standing on the site of the imperial kiln factory, many people marvel at the wisdom of the ancients and the spirit of excellence in porcelain making, but few people ask, in such a city, why Zhu Yuanzhang, the founding emperor of the Ming Dynasty, would put his imperial porcelain factory in Jingdezhen, which is far away from the mountains, instead of Henan Jun porcelain, Hebei Dingyao, Zhejiang Longquan kiln location?
This question (x), sir, can you please answer me.
Mr. Wu Hao said: Mr. Mo Hao, the question you asked, few people think about it at the moment. You're good at asking, though. So, how do I answer this question?
If you walk on the local streets of Jingdezhen and someone faces your question, he will definitely say casually, Jingdezhen is the porcelain capital;
Of course, there are also people who will stop, think about it, and answer you, saying that Jingdezhen was famous in the Song Dynasty, and the name was given by Emperor Zhenzong of the Song Dynasty. In the Yuan Dynasty, the Fuliang Porcelain Bureau was set up in Jingdezhen, and the official kiln was set up to produce Yuan blue and white.
But is this the main reason?
Mr. Wu Hao said: Actually, Yuan blue and white porcelain, we have already said in the last interview. It is also called white ground blue porcelain, because of religious beliefs, the formation of aesthetic differences, it was not seen in the Central Plains at that time, the products are mainly sold to West Asia and other Islamic regions. In addition, the Yuan blue and white porcelain uses the printing blank and tire grafting process, the body is rough, the external joint traces are obvious, and the vessel type is not the most exquisite than other kilns, such as Longquan celadon, northern Ding kiln, and Jun kiln.
Zhu Yuanzhang, the founding emperor of the Ming Dynasty, put his imperial ware factory in Jingdezhen, I think, there are three main reasons:
First, Zhu Yuanzhang's gratitude to the local Fuliang people, why do you say that?According to relevant historical records: Zhu Yuanzhang encountered great difficulties when starting a business, and it was the local people in the Fuliang area who gave him great enthusiastic support. Zhu Yuanzhang, who laid down the Ming Dynasty, did not forget the old feelings, and gave the people of Fuliang a return in another way, that is, to set up his own imperial ware factory here. The second is the original foundation and continuous innovation potential of Fuliang Jingdezhen porcelain industry. Such as high-temperature hard porcelain, underglaze colored porcelain, etc., hygienic and lead-free poison, can meet the normal porcelain standards in the palace, but other production areas are not. The third is that Zhu Yuanzhang believes in the Daming Sect, which comes from West Asia, and what is advocated in the doctrine is blue. Out of the sticking to his teachings and uniting his comrades in the teachings, he needed to introduce blue and white porcelain and treat it as a national porcelain and enter his own table, which at that time had great symbolic significance for him.
In the Ming Dynasty, it was stipulated that the imperial ware factory was managed by the officials of the Raozhou Mansion --- the institutions under its jurisdiction, but when encountering a large number of firing or special tribute porcelain customization, the imperial court sent a lieutenant official to Jingdezhen to supervise and handle it.
During the Shunzhi period in the early Qing Dynasty, the Qing Dynasty royal porcelain basically followed the principle of "tribute if there is a fate, and if there is no stop", the required products were fired by the folk kiln factory, and in the nineteenth year of Kangxi (1680), there was its own imperial kiln factory. On the basis of learning the lessons of the Ming Imperial Ware Factory, they set up a system of supervising pottery officials. However, in the Jiaqing period of the Qing Dynasty, this system of supervising pottery officials was abolished, imitating the management model of the Ming Dynasty, and the imperial kiln factory was decentralized to local management.
According to historical records, in the Ming and Qing dynasties, there were 35 people who were sent to Jingdezhen to supervise Tao.
Historically, the emperor was wise, and his money could not be put on a single basket. Here, the architectural archaeology in the current ruins of the Imperial Kiln Factory can fully illustrate this point.
Sir, I see.
The Imperial Kiln Factory is so remarkable, do you think about how to "use the past for the present", have you ever thought about it?
After hearing this, Mr. Wu Hao laughed, and he said, this is not a question I can answer, I can only suggest. As far as I know, the state attaches great importance to this, and the local Jingdezhen ** is organizing personnel to apply to the United Nations World Heritage Site. However, at present, our research is limited to archaeology, cultural relics restoration, and internal and external tours, which is far from enough, and it is far from developing its original value. I also believe that the research, development and utilization of the original imperial kiln factory is not enough to rely on the local Jingdezhen strength, and should be included in the national cultural construction project and elevated to the national strategy. Only in this way can the great cultural and historical treasure of the Chinese nation serve our times and the great cause of national rejuvenation as soon as possible
Mo Hao (name, Wei Xueqin) was written in Jingdezhen, Jiangxi, and changed to Songzhuang, Beijing in early winter.