Replying to DingTalk and WeChat messages after work has become the norm for many "workers". Does this count as overtime?
Recently, in the work report of the Beijing Municipal High People's Court, the judgment case of "overtime" was mentioned, which is the first case in the country to clarify "overtime" in the judgment document. Although the amount of compensation paid to the worker is not much, it can be written into the work report of the Beijing High People's Court, because the problems behind it are widespread - the so-called "overtime culture" and "overtime" are the reality that many "workers" cannot escape, and they are also unspeakable pain points in their hearts.
Is the "right to take a break offline" after work still in your hands?
Leave the office ≠ leave work.
"Migrant workers are still busy on weekends.
At the end of the year and the beginning of the year, it is the most anxious time for the "worker" Xiao Gao. Xiao Gao works as a designer in a private company, responsible for the design of corporate product brochures, product packaging, and various posters, and designs the desk calendar and wall calendar for the new year in December every year. Although it is his own job, at this point in time, Xiao Gao will be bombarded indiscriminately day and night.
The design draft needs to be reviewed and checked by many leaders, and I often deliver the draft early in the morning, and some leaders only give review opinions in the middle of the night. It was not easy to finalize the draft, and I had to urge various departments to count the number of printing, and someone sent me a message at 12 o'clock in the middle of the night to ask questions. Finally came to the printing process, the printing house had to send messages over and over again, check the color size, and I had to go to get the sample ...... on the weekend"The design work that seems to be completed during working hours has actually brought countless troubles to Xiao Gao, and even anxiety about the mobile phone, for fear of ringing the ringtone, "In the eyes of the company's leaders, I just designed a calendar, but the other '** work' was undertaken silently by myself, and I couldn't open my mouth if I wanted overtime pay." ”
Mr. Chen, who is engaged in the financial industry, was also tortured by "** overtime".
Our work needs to dock a lot of departments and customers, everyone's time can not get together, can only use the off-duty time to communicate, originally I left the office at about 8 o'clock in the evening, every day on the way home to go back to **, back to WeChat. Mr. Chen said that now it has become the norm for him to hold ** meetings every Saturday morning, and the tasks assigned in the ** meeting must be completed before the arrival of Monday, and this high-pressure state makes him breathless. Recently, Mr. Chen took his first annual leave in five years to accompany his sick mother, but he had to wander in the corridor of the hospital to continue working overtime.
*Overtime" is already the norm for many office workers. "I hate sending WeChat to arrange work during non-working hours, and it's not a matter of urgency! "It's not a waste of time, but it's going to ruin a good mood for the whole weekend. "I'm on call 24 hours a day, but no one ever mentions overtime pay. "On social platforms, all kinds of complaints have swiped the screen.
The overtime culture "is subtle."
Remote overtime became the norm.
What do you think is a phenomenon that can be called "overtime"?
Recently, a reporter from Jinan sent out a questionnaire on this topic. The results show that communicating or collaborating at work during non-working hours, handling work emails or documents during non-working hours, receiving customers or conducting business activities during non-working hours, and attending company meetings or training during non-working hours are all considered "overtime" by everyone. 62 respondents thought they often "worked overtime".9%。
Why has "** overtime" become a collective "pain point" for office workers?Stemming from the subtle change of "overtime culture" and the change of office style.
I think the reason why "overtime" has become the norm is that "overtime culture" is prevalent, and the "996", "007" and "big and small weeks" that "big factories" once preached, in fact, have affected the thinking of many enterprise and unit leaders, and they always think that overtime can improve efficiency and "roll" over peers. Mr. Chen said that there was a period of time in his financial institution, where various departments "rolled" overtime hours with each other, and when a department was fully on duty every Saturday, other departments would worry that the leaders would feel that they were not as good as them, so there was a "9 o'clock in the evening to leave the office", "New Year's Day holiday unified overtime", "weekend rotation on duty" and other atmospheres, and even in order to wait for a data in the contract, the whole department had to be neat.
Xiao Gao believes that it is the change in the office mode in the Internet era that has allowed overtime to invade life. "Now that the Internet is so developed, many jobs can be communicated online, and everyone has a computer, and there is no reason not to work overtime. Xiao Gao said that in order to allow her to produce design drafts at home, the company also equipped her with a printer to put at home, which seems to be a welfare, but it is actually a shackle. "The rise of office software such as DingTalk, Tencent Meeting, and Enterprise WeChat has made 'migrant workers' lose their freedom during their breaks, whether they are shopping, eating, accompanying their families, or traveling for short distances, a meeting notice can let you meet the leader face to face. Xiao Gao reluctantly said that this form of overtime has neither actual work results nor clock-in records, so naturally there is no compensation.
The country's first case of "** overtime".
Protect the "right to take a break offline".
Just when many people have nothing to do about "** overtime", and even worry that rights protection will "outweigh the losses", a case has drawn a red line for "** overtime".
In this year's work report of the Beijing Municipal High People's Court, a case of "overtime" involving the use of social software such as WeChat was mentioned. This case is the first case in the country to clarify the issue of "overtime" in the judgment document. The plaintiff in this case is an employee, Mr. Li, who sued the company for overtime pay from December 21, 2019 to December 11, 2020. The overtime content advocated by Li is the labor he paid to communicate with customers or colleagues in WeChat or DingTalk and other software after work. However, the defendant's company argued that this was not overtime.
After trial, the Beijing No. 3 Intermediate People's Court held that Li's use of social work during the off-duty hours and rest days on some working days had gone beyond the scope of simple communication, and that the work content had the characteristics of periodicity and fixity, which was different from temporary and occasional general communication, and reflected the characteristics of the employer's management and employment, and should be found to constitute overtime, and accordingly ruled that the company should pay Li 30,000 yuan in overtime pay.
The judgment of this case creatively put forward the principle of "providing work substance" and the principle of "obviousness of occupation time" as the criteria for determining the issue of "** overtime", which conforms to the changing trend of labor forms in the digital era, effectively protects the legitimate rights and interests of workers, and is selected as one of the "Top 10 Cases of Promoting the Rule of Law Process in the New Era in 2023".
This case made "Is returning to WeChat after work considered overtime" on the hot search list again, and "there is applause here" and "'Yangjian' news" and other likes swiped the screen. Some people say that in response to the phenomenon of "overtime" in the Internet era, the court recognized the use of WeChat to pay substantive labor after work as overtime in accordance with the law, and guaranteed the "right to offline rest" of workers. Some people also called the party Li a "lonely brave", because ordinary workers do not dare to risk tearing their faces with the company to defend their rights.
Do you think "** overtime" needs to be paid overtime? According to the results of the questionnaire, the vast majority of respondents believe that "* overtime" is also overtime and needs to be paid for labor income.
There are still difficulties in defending rights.
Companies should think a little more about their employees.
If you want to defend your rights when you encounter "** overtime", will it be smooth sailing?
Zhao Lijiao, a lawyer at Shandong Qiangu Law Firm, told reporters that according to Article 36 of the Labor Law of the People's Republic of China, the state implements a working hour system in which the daily working hours of workers do not exceed 8 hours and the average weekly working hours do not exceed 44 hours; Article 43 stipulates that an employer shall not extend the working hours of an employee in violation of the provisions of this Law. If the employer arranges for an employee to work overtime, it shall notify the employee in a timely manner and obtain the employee's consent. It can be seen that after work, workers have the right to rest and leave in accordance with the law. "Even if there is a clock-in record, it is often in the hands of the employer, so it is often difficult for an employee to provide evidence when claiming compensation for 'overtime'. If the enterprise adopts the method of DingTalk punching, it is recommended that the employee take screenshots to keep records to protect their own rights and interests. Zhao Lijiao said bluntly.
In the comment area under related topics such as "It seems that the hospital is a 'place outside the law'", "I don't want to lose my job, endure it" and other related topics, many netizens also expressed their helplessness, the nature of work, life pressure and other reasons, so that they can only accept the status quo of "24-hour standby".
I believe that companies should have clearer regulations on overtime systems and overtime pay from the perspective of employees. In fact, in many cases, workers are not unable to accept overtime, but can not accept endless oppression, as long as the regulations are reasonable and do not treat employees badly, for the sake of performance and promotion, everyone is still willing to work overtime appropriately. One interviewee said that the most important thing between employers and workers is not to violate the law, that is, to abide by the contract between the two parties, only in this way can the "military spirit" be stabilized and conducive to the long-term development of the enterprise.
Fat Donglai, who is called "Fairy Company" by countless netizens, the founder Yu Donglai once gave a speech and angrily denounced the "overtime culture", "In Fat Donglai, overtime is not good." Working overtime is depriving others of their time and taking advantage of their growth opportunities. This is unethical. Overtime is one of the exploitation of personality. Workers do not expect to be "fat everywhere", but they also want to be treated more sincerely.
Street mining. 
Interviewee: Ms. Xu.
I think there are a lot of cases of "** overtime" now, such as replying to customer messages during non-working hours, or sudden work arrangements, and workers are often afraid of offending the company, and dare not speak out. I believe that there should be relevant regulations that clearly stipulate the concept of "overtime" to protect the rights and interests of workers.
Interviewee: Mr. Wang.
*The reason why it is difficult to protect the rights of "overtime" has a lot to do with the fact that how to define and compensate for overtime is not written into the labor contract between the employee and the enterprise, and even if the employee wants to protect his rights, there is no basis. I think this point needs to be supervised by the relevant departments to avoid contract loopholes that harm the rights and interests of workers.
Interviewee: Mr. Chen.
Nowadays, remote work is very common, and some companies also adopt the mode of working from home, so the time to and from work is gradually blurred, and the phenomenon of "* overtime" will be more. However, I think this concept should also be carefully divided according to the nature of the job and the characteristics of the position.
Micro-views. Workers have the right to say no to "overtime".
Bright Net. Coincidentally, a labor dispute case was recently announced in Shanghai. A company was sued by employees for frequently requiring employees to attend planning meetings after work at night and to attend training in other places on weekends. After the trial, the court ruled that the company should pay the employee overtime wages for the usual extended hours and rest days1More than 20,000 yuan.
The reason why these two cases have attracted widespread attention and made countless workers praise them is not only because everyone has been working overtime for a long time, but also because for the mandatory "overtime", even if the employee clearly knows that it violates the labor law, he does not dare to openly resist. Through the judgments of these cases, the relevant differences of "* overtime" have been clarified, and the legitimate rights of workers have been defended, providing a strong confidence for the majority of workers.
Therefore, in order to reduce "overtime", it is not only necessary to clarify its legal nature, clarify the calculation rules of overtime hours, reduce possible labor disputes, but also continuously improve the system of protecting the rights and interests of workers. For example, it is necessary to smooth the complaint and reporting mechanism, so that workers can have a smooth channel to protect their rights when faced with unreasonable unpaid overtime requirements; Another example is to intensify labor inspection and law enforcement, and increase the intensity of punishment and punishment for enterprises that violate laws and regulations that violate workers' right to rest, so as to force them to fully protect the legitimate rights and interests of workers.
Of course, these two cases are also a reminder for the majority of workers. If replying to work messages after work becomes a work norm and takes up a lot of time, then don't be afraid and assert your rights in accordance with the law. If the worker dares to say no to unreasonable overtime, the employer will not dare to mess around.
Businesses cannot abuse their strong position.
Qianjiang Evening News. In recent years, because working on network software is not considered a job, it has repeatedly caused disputes and attracted social attention. Whether from the perspective of protecting the rights and interests of employees, or from the perspective of adapting to the changes in labor patterns and resolving disputes in the digital era, it is necessary to include them in the legal and compliance channel in a timely manner.
Beijing has written "overtime" into the court work report, and has made a breakthrough in the exploration of judicial practice, which is naturally a good thing for employees, whose rights and interests have been effectively protected and have a basis for rights protection. It will also remind companies to pay attention to management boundaries, respect the private lives of employees, and be cautious of interruptions. Some companies stipulate that employees do not stop for 24 hours and need to reply at any time; Some companies schedule team building activities on weekends, which is called training ......These practices of stealing beams and changing pillars are actually a kind of "overtime".
Employees need to understand the difficulties of the company, and the company needs to see the efforts of employees. Respect is a two-way street, and companies cannot abuse their strong position, and they cannot require employees to obey unconditionally regardless of the occasion and time. If an employee performs labor outside of normal working hours, the employer is also required to pay for overtime. In fact, the judicial problem is also to clear mines for enterprises in advance, avoid labor disputes, and pave the way for standardization. As long as things are done in accordance with the law, enterprises can benefit from it.
God replied. Netizen @祎只小sleepy orange: There is no teacher who does not work overtime, unless he turns off his mobile phone directly.
Netizen @快乐netizen Xiaokey: Can you manage the company that has no two days off and no five insurances and one housing fund?
Netizen @Changsheng: The "beating workers" who dare to say so are really courageous, because they may be "**lightning protection" by the company they apply for later.
Netizen @Song嵩 thermos cup: That's too many extralegal fanatics.
Joy Vision. Face up to "overtime" and respect the "right to offline breaks".
People are not in the company, but the work is still on the body. "How many office workers are working today?
Combing through the messages of netizens, it is not difficult to find that "** overtime" appears in various forms - it is obviously off-duty time, and some employers still confidently use WeChat, DingTalk and other online software to assign new work tasks to employees, and even add a sentence "to be completed before going to work tomorrow", and deliberately ignore the fact of "** overtime"; Some companies require employees to participate in various business trainings after work or weekend breaks, and even force them to participate in team building, which is a disguised "overtime" ......
From the perspective of "workers", as long as they are dealing with work problems during non-working hours, and they are not occasional or sudden, but long-term and planned, overtime is essentially an infringement of employees' right to rest. Many professionals and lawyers have said that in the increasingly popular digital office, "overtime" is invading the private space of workers, and these are often not reflected in labor contracts, and it is particularly difficult to protect rights.
Fortunately, the announcement of similar cases marks that the court has begun to face up to and deal with the problem of "overtime" in the Internet era, and office workers no longer have to swallow their anger about it. The law gradually clarifies the various boundaries of "overtime", not only to protect the rights of workers, but also to remind enterprise managers to treat employees well and partners who are closely related to the interests of the enterprise.
It is expected that the "right to take a break offline" can be returned to the hands of office workers.
Reporter: Wen Tu ** Cao Yaxin Editor: Zhang Yu Proofreader: Kong Qunfang.